The neanderthals don't know how to build anything,so they tear things down. ** -- MikeVT85 08/15/2017 6:55PM
My longest thread ever- and one like? C'mon, man! ** -- WestyHokie 08/15/2017 2:29PM
Saw this quote today from 1984... seems to be playing out. -- HokieSignGuy 08/15/2017 1:05PM
Re: Saw this quote today from 1984... seems to be playing out. -- VTSnake 08/15/2017 1:32PM
So we have to pay attention so the latter does not happen. ** -- HokieSignGuy 08/15/2017 1:36PM
Agreed. ** -- CPRVHokie 08/15/2017 2:13PM
What you have to realize is the protests has ~5% to do with civil war... -- EDGEMAN 08/15/2017 12:37PM
I pretty sure it is a Deep State conspiracy against Trump -- VaTechie 08/15/2017 3:41PM
Never ask a question you don't want answered ** -- typed by ben 08/15/2017 3:55PM
The mental gymnastics in this post are phenomenal -- VTSnake 08/15/2017 1:25PM
Want to share what part you disagree with, constructively? ** -- Hoakie82 08/15/2017 2:19PM
Allow me. -- typed by ben 08/15/2017 3:05PM
What's your "take" on this article in the Atlantic -- EDGEMAN 08/15/2017 3:58PM
Here's my take: You have to defend yourself. -- typed by ben 08/15/2017 8:32PM
Your synopsis of the events is accurate but I don't think it disputes what -- Hoakie82 08/15/2017 3:35PM
His spin is that the "Left" set it up as some kind of Nazi turkey shoot -- typed by ben 08/15/2017 4:03PM
Just based on actual observations of what transpired. -- EDGEMAN 08/15/2017 2:16PM
LMAO ** -- typed by ben 08/15/2017 2:24PM
This has to be Poe's Law right? -- VTSnake 08/15/2017 2:29PM
Extremely aggressive spin, especially to mention HFC. -- typed by ben 08/15/2017 3:18PM
LMAO ** -- typed by ben 08/15/2017 1:09PM
Col Allen West, a man I admire and respect, wrote a VERY insightful piece> -- HOKIERIT 08/15/2017 11:18AM
Yes. It is awesome! ** -- HokieHeartNSoul 08/15/2017 6:15PM
The paradox is the discussion is great, cognitive dissonance is good... -- `lag 08/15/2017 10:48AM
^^^Great post, must read. ** -- RTFC 08/15/2017 12:28PM
The last sentence nails it -- Manbearpig 08/15/2017 11:05AM
Please keep repeating this ** -- CPRVHokie 08/15/2017 10:58AM
So when all of the past history is erased, will we all be able to hold -- RaleighHokie15 08/15/2017 10:42AM
Here's the problem...people now want history to reflect the values that ... -- vthhhi 08/15/2017 10:04AM
Sorry, but you've bought into the Lee hagiography -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 11:30AM
You must of read something different than I did... -- vthhhi 08/15/2017 1:24PM
Washington's strategy is known as "army-in-being" -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 1:43PM
Since this discussion started with how things were 150 years ago... -- vthhhi 08/15/2017 2:06PM
Add a statue of Lee giving his sword to Grant. Plus, one of Nat Turner or -- Hoakie82 08/15/2017 2:41PM
You really think all Virginians thought Scott was a traitor? -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 2:20PM
I'm ashamed of plenty of stupid things I did when I was younger -- Beerman 08/15/2017 10:46AM
I don't want to talk get into a semantics debate but no I'm not ashamed of -- Hoakie82 08/15/2017 2:08PM
Yes, of course they should be allowed. -- Beerman 08/15/2017 3:11PM
Yeah, I imagine a LOT of folks are just screaming "YOU'RE NOT HELPING" -- Nova Hokie 95 08/15/2017 3:18PM
Yes, of course they should be allowed. ** -- CPRVHokie 08/15/2017 2:16PM
Lee chose to side with a state that promoted treating people as property -- Manbearpig 08/15/2017 10:23AM
Loyalty to your state was viewed very differently in 1860 than it is today ** -- HokieJamie 08/15/2017 10:37AM
Not really. -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 11:36AM
6...whopping number there ** -- HokieJamie 08/15/2017 2:33PM
There were 32,000 who enlisted in the Union Army. -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 2:50PM
So ~16% of the military age white population? -- HokieEngineer 08/15/2017 5:12PM
Lee had no trouble suppressing Brown's raid. -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 5:48PM
I didn't think about the oath issue. However, when he resigned, did that -- HokieEngineer 08/15/2017 6:13PM
Jefferson didn't really believe in secession, either -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 7:07PM
There are so many contradictions in Jefferson's words/actions, I don't -- HokieEngineer 08/15/2017 7:40PM
If Lee thought suppressing rebellion was intolerable, why was he at HF? -- Perfesser 08/16/2017 09:13AM
His own writings indicate that he rejected the idea of forced abolition. -- HokieEngineer 08/16/2017 09:51AM
Nobody was forcing abolition in 1861. -- Perfesser 08/16/2017 2:24PM
I offer the statement that he was against "forced abolition" in response to -- HokieEngineer 08/16/2017 4:39PM
So if MAJ Hasan (also of Arlington) had resigned prior to his rampage -- Perfesser 08/16/2017 6:24PM
Absurd comment. What did the vast majority of Virginians do? ** -- RoswellGAHokie 08/15/2017 12:50PM
"Vast majority"? About 40% of the whites remained loyal -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 12:57PM
Not everyone in WV was loyal go look at the succession voting ** -- HokieJamie 08/15/2017 2:33PM
And not everyone in VA was treasonous. -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 2:54PM
30% of VA was black in 1860? ** -- Hoakie82 08/15/2017 1:54PM
31% were _slaves_, per US Census -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 2:13PM
I'm not a history expert. That's more than I would've guessed. Blacks are -- Hoakie82 08/15/2017 2:53PM
Migration to the north, coupled with immigration from elsewhere -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 2:58PM
The Native Americans got decimated. Only .2% left in VA now. ** -- Hoakie82 08/15/2017 3:03PM
There weren't that many anywhere east of the Miss. River by 1861 -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 3:05PM
I appreciate your insight. Your name seems apropos. Hopefully, your stats -- Hoakie82 08/15/2017 3:49PM
As accurate as the US Census -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 3:57PM
I wasn't just thinking about stats but your opinions about Generals. You -- Hoakie82 08/15/2017 4:24PM
Well, I have a PhD in military history and teach it. ** -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 4:32PM
I didn't want to ask but that's what I figured. Thanks again for your input ** -- Hoakie82 08/15/2017 4:36PM
And others want to ignore history beyond the Civil War -- Nova Hokie 95 08/15/2017 10:21AM
Exactly. It's not about Lee, Jackson, or anyone else. It's about the -- reestuart 08/15/2017 10:47AM
It's the most important thing to remember. Most of these statues were -- CPRVHokie 08/15/2017 10:34AM
Do you three seriously believe that the PURPOSE of erecting these statues -- DonHo-kieHi 08/15/2017 11:22AM
It is 100% why they were erected. There's a reason all of these -- reestuart 08/15/2017 12:54PM
Wasnt the Lee statue 1800's? (Yes) ** -- 48zip 08/15/2017 10:19PM
In C-ville? It wasn't completed until 1924. -- reestuart 08/16/2017 08:36AM
My bad. I was thinking about the RVA/Monument Ave one -- 48zip 08/16/2017 08:54AM
Why are there no monuments to Scott or Washington on Monument Avenue? -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 11:42AM
Matthew Fontaine Maury (tried to end slavery, was almost 1st prez of VT) -- 48zip 08/15/2017 4:11PM
And served in the CSN. -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 4:31PM
I fail to see a comparison. Alum is irrelevant here. -- 48zip 08/15/2017 7:23PM
Then why serve in the military of a nation committed to preserving slavery? -- Perfesser 08/16/2017 09:18AM
Good question. I don't know. I do know that the Maury statue is considered -- 48zip 08/16/2017 09:22AM
Do some research on when and why they were erected. ** -- CPRVHokie 08/15/2017 11:23AM
You should do some research on how much ... -- vthhhi 08/15/2017 11:38AM
In fact I did take his class. And grew up in Virginia. And have read -- CPRVHokie 08/15/2017 11:47AM
"After the war" is the important aspect -- Nova Hokie 95 08/15/2017 11:45AM
So where's Washington's statue on Monument Avenue? ** -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 11:43AM
Its in the Rotunda ** -- 48zip 08/15/2017 8:11PM
Out of sight -- no racial intimidation at all in Monument Ave, right? ** -- Perfesser 08/16/2017 09:20AM
Richmond was the Capital of the Confederacy, a legacy of which they are -- DonHo-kieHi 08/15/2017 12:34PM
BTW, I think the statues as stickingit to eh blacks isn't accurate either -- Manbearpig 08/15/2017 12:51PM
And just as Jim Crow was dawning .... ** -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 12:52PM
Do you think that the South was in a position to erect statues in, say, -- Coach McGuirk 08/15/2017 1:50PM
Given that Lee himself publicly opposed monuments to the Confedercy, no. -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 2:11PM
Like most subjects -- RTFC 08/15/2017 3:16PM
Scott has monument in NYC that was done before any of those in the south -- DonHo-kieHi 08/15/2017 2:54PM
Would you be okay with a monument to Major Hassan at Fort Hood? -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 3:03PM
Well, evidently Richmond just wanted to stick to all the uppity Black folks -- DonHo-kieHi 08/15/2017 4:04PM
Where did I say it should be torn down? -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 4:16PM
Did the Irish erect statues of Cromwell? -- Coach McGuirk 08/15/2017 2:26PM
They do -- in Ulster. -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 2:44PM
You don't have a problem with a statue of Lee in Gettysburg? -- Coach McGuirk 08/15/2017 3:08PM
I have a problem with the statue in Cville -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 3:18PM
So start a committee, raise some money and commission a statue -- DonHo-kieHi 08/15/2017 3:56PM
What you propose is fine on private property. -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 3:59PM
Nope, they couldn't vote. Thats a bad part of our history as well so should -- DonHo-kieHi 08/15/2017 4:11PM
They could vote (15th Amendment). They weren't allowed to. -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 4:20PM
That is true as well -- Manbearpig 08/15/2017 1:41PM
Was Arthur Ashe known for fighting to keep white slavery legal? ** -- Manbearpig 08/15/2017 12:48PM
You asked, I answer. -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 12:41PM
Interesting opinion but no real facts there. We'll have to agree to -- DonHo-kieHi 08/15/2017 12:58PM
Read Blight's book for the facts -- plenty of footnotes there for you -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 1:03PM
I think you are overlooking the tenuous nature of the "united" part of the -- Coach McGuirk 08/15/2017 2:01PM
Again, why celebrate these specific individuals? -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 2:31PM
I agree with your first statement--as long as the citizens of the -- HokieEngineer 08/15/2017 11:18AM
Damn people being imperfect. ** -- CPRVHokie 08/15/2017 11:22AM
That's what I was trying to get at. -- HokieEngineer 08/15/2017 11:31AM
Yeah, I was agreeing you. All humans are imperfect including the founders. -- CPRVHokie 08/15/2017 11:44AM
This seems to be the way it is. ** -- AtlantaHokie 08/15/2017 10:07AM
Weren't these specific statues put up in the Jim Crow era to intimidate? -- Nova Hokie 95 08/15/2017 09:56AM
Where is your information that these statues were put up to "intimidate"?? -- DonHo-kieHi 08/15/2017 12:12PM
It's in a number of articles -- Nova Hokie 95 08/15/2017 12:28PM
Please keep repeating this. ** -- CPRVHokie 08/15/2017 10:35AM
Lee's the target now. Washington & Jefferson will be the targets in 5 years -- RoswellGAHokie 08/15/2017 09:53AM
Yep. Many of the -- VTUD 08/15/2017 10:10AM
The craziness ends when they stop having great arguments. ** -- CPRVHokie 08/15/2017 10:36AM
Who is "they"? the perfect or imperfect?** -- RTFC 08/15/2017 11:59AM
Great arguments are in the eye of the beholder ** -- HokieJamie 08/15/2017 10:38AM
Of course, but seems to me the anti-statue folks have the better of it in -- CPRVHokie 08/15/2017 10:41AM
Fine that's your opinion. Doesn't make it right or wrong, its an opinion -- HokieJamie 08/15/2017 10:47AM
If it's my opinion, it's right. And, yes, I'm aware the battle will move on -- CPRVHokie 08/15/2017 10:57AM
Many of the founders... -- Dean Wormer 08/15/2017 09:40AM
Over? Did you say over? Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? ** -- WestyHokie 08/15/2017 09:55AM
I agree with all of that, but let's not confuse facts with the truth -- USN_Hokie 08/15/2017 09:53AM
So was Lee ** -- MAHokie69 08/15/2017 09:59AM
Read what I wrote. -- USN_Hokie 08/15/2017 10:05AM
Odd as it seems, Lee was an abolitionist -- Monk of McBride 08/15/2017 10:34AM
Let me retract a little bit -- Monk of McBride 08/15/2017 10:58AM
I agree "he was just a man with plenty of flaws, but aren't we all? -- HokiesDiver 08/15/2017 4:12PM
Like a lot of politicians he said what he needed to say at the time -- RTFC 08/15/2017 12:09PM
His army also confiscated every black person it saw in PA in 1863 and sent -- HokieJamie 08/15/2017 11:07AM
Oh come on please don't keep this facade up ** -- HokieJamie 08/15/2017 10:48AM
Well... -- MAHokie69 08/15/2017 10:33AM
Don't fault me for your own misinterpretations. -- USN_Hokie 08/15/2017 12:27PM
This is what I wonder about ** -- WestyHokie 08/15/2017 09:56AM
To me, a Lee statue and a TJ one are different -- Manbearpig 08/15/2017 09:30AM
"a time where wealthy white guys owned slaves" False. -- USN_Hokie 08/15/2017 10:01AM
Did I say every wealthy white guy owned slaves? ** -- Manbearpig 08/15/2017 10:05AM
That interpretation reduces your comment to something meaningless -- USN_Hokie 08/15/2017 12:19PM
You think the late 18th and late 19th centuries were identical societies?** -- Manbearpig 08/15/2017 12:33PM
Yeah not sure how you can say it was not a time when wealthy white guys -- AbsolutVT03 08/15/2017 10:15AM
He argues like my wife does -- statmanfromHCyrs 08/15/2017 10:14AM
He didn't "betray" the US...secession was a constitutional -- WestEndHokie39 08/15/2017 09:57AM
It has been pretty well agreed to that it is not a Constitutional right -- MAHokie69 08/15/2017 10:22AM
Madison's writings seem to indicate the he felt the states were bound to -- HokieEngineer 08/15/2017 11:06AM
LOL, the US disagreed ** -- Manbearpig 08/15/2017 10:06AM
Nice job framing the difference. I agree -- MAHokie69 08/15/2017 09:56AM
So did Lee ** -- WestEndHokie39 08/15/2017 09:57AM
Name one. ** -- CPRVHokie 08/15/2017 10:29AM
30+ years of service in the US Army, plus Superintendent of West Point ** -- MAHokie69 08/15/2017 10:35AM
That warrants a statue? Buddy of mine's great aunt who just passed had -- CPRVHokie 08/15/2017 10:37AM
I never said it did -- MAHokie69 08/15/2017 10:43AM
Same as in 30 years in the Army. Should have used 'similar' ** -- CPRVHokie 08/15/2017 10:56AM
We shall settle it with teams of idiots- both carrying bats -- bigbadbird 08/15/2017 09:34AM
One of the attorney general candidates in Virginia floated -- WestEndHokie39 08/15/2017 09:28AM
It's very complicated. Too complicated for this forum. ** -- CPRVHokie 08/15/2017 09:23AM
Context is critical. Important to note difference between combatants -- typed by ben 08/15/2017 09:20AM
Most of the whiners prob don't pay for their educations -- bigbadbird 08/15/2017 09:16AM
You forgot the "tic"..... ** -- Hokebury 08/15/2017 09:38AM
How do you score a bat fight? to see who won and all ** -- bigbadbird 08/15/2017 09:50AM
This has to be a troll ** -- CPRVHokie 08/15/2017 09:21AM